South East London blogzine - things that are happening, things that happened, things that should never have happened. New Cross, Brockley, Deptford and other beauty spots. EMAIL US: transpontineblog at gmail.com Transpontine: 'on the other (i.e. the south) side of the bridges over the Thames; pertaining to or like the lurid melodrama played in theatres there in the 19th century'.
Showing posts with label South London Pubs. Show all posts
Showing posts with label South London Pubs. Show all posts
The Pyrotechnists Arms on Nunhead Green looks set to reopen shortly, having been empty for a few months. At any event its owners, the Stonegate Pub Company, have given it a lick of paint.
The pub dates back to at least 1871 and has one of the most unique pub names in London. It derives from the fact that it once served the workers at the nearby fireworks factory, built in 1868 for C. T. Brock & Co, "Crystal Palace" Fireworks. As the name suggests Brock's was famous for its elaborate fireworks displays at the Crystal Palace. It also made munitions though, supplying cartridges for the French army during the 1870 Franco-Prussian war. As the Army was soon being turned against the citizens of Paris it seems likely that some of the weaponry used in the massacre that ended the 1871 Paris Commune was made in Nunhead*.
The fireworks factory was in a field to the east of Nunhead Green. It was only there for a few years, as those fields were soon being filled with houses - in this case Barset and Howbury Roads In the early 1870s the factory moved to Tennison Road, South Norwood.
I believe the fireworks factory is the square area in right of picture, with a path heading down towards the green (late 1860s map)
* there was quite an overlap between fireworks and explosives in this period, with gunpowder being the common ingredient. One of my ancestors, my great great grandfather Thomas Cook (1835-1901), seems to have been involved in both. Born in Woolwich, he worked at the Royal Arsenal and later moved to Oare near Faversham. On the 1881 census he is listed as an 'artist in fireworks' but was working at the Cotton Powder Factory which made explosives as well as distress flares.
Update 1 August 2025:
The pub has reopened! Seemingly with a food offer of Nepali style dumplings which I am intrigued by.
Don't think I've given enough love out to the Shirkers Rest, beer shop/bar at 9 Lewisham Way opposite Goldsmiths in New Cross.
They have beers (and cider)
They have events including open mics and comedy nights
And of course they have a slacker aesthetic
Yes there's a 'Never Work' poster and the legendary 1980s 'I didn't go to work today... I don't think I'll go tomorrow' poster. Despite the claims of some cheeky f*cks online to have designed and therefore sell this image, I believe it was actually designed by a nice Leeds anarchist called Brian who also did some radical Tin Tin cartoon strips. Remember having lots of arguments about this at the time - along the lines of yes the sentiment's great but many working class people don't have the luxury of sleeping in and losing their job. Something to debate over a pint of Common Sense or whatever you fancy at the Shirkers Rest.
Good showing for SE London in Time Out's '50 Best Pubs in London' 2023 pub of the year awards, announced a couple of weeks ago.
My local, Skehans (Kitto Road SE14), is now the best pub in London apparently. A few years ago it was quite empty on some mid week nights but its managed to grow in popularity without losing its older regulars and now 'attracts everyone from OAPs to local bands, chic fashion students and troupes of cheerful lads. There’s karaoke, folk-music nights and terrific Thai food too. What more could you want? Perfect Guinness? Well, this is a proper Irish pub, so you’re in luck'. As well as winning this award, the pub has also been mentioned in the last year in everything from The Tatler (which described it as 'a magnet for Guinness-swilling arty types') to the Limerick Post (its owner Bryan Fitzsimons hails from there). Not to mention featuring as a location in ITV drama series 'You and Me'.
The Blythe Hill Tavern in Catford comes in at no.7, a classic Irish pub with music sessions and scene for me of many running club (Kent AC) committee meetings upstairs. The Ivy House in Nunhead is in at number 10, great community owned pub and home to the Goose is Out folk club and other music nights.
Elsewhere in the top 50 we have the Prince of Peckham (19), The Gowlett in Peckham (23), The Dog and Bell in Deptford (32), The Mayflower in Rotherhithe (35), The Camberwell Arms (46). All good choices though I am sure we all have our own preferences - personally would like to see New Cross House in there for instance, maybe next year.
Skehans history
Skehans has received media attention before, being featured on the Evening Standard's Cool List in 2018. The pub has been there since the 1890s, originally known as the Duke of Albany. The Time Out article lists its location as Nunhead, which makes sense as it is near to Nunhead station. The Tatler article, which is pretty clueless, says Brockley but that would really be stretching it. Others would point to its SE14 address and claim it for New Cross, or for Telegraph Hill. I guess it's a postcode border zone - interestingly an early listing as a masonic meeting place gives its address as the Duke of Albany Hotel, Kitto Road, St Katherine's-park, Hatcham (The Freemason, 8 October 1892). St Katherine's Park was the original names for the Victorian housing development on Telegraph Hill, but the name doesn't seem to have stuck. In the 1990s the pub was known as McConnell's free house, and was also known locally for many years as the red house on account of its red bricks.
If you look closely today at the brickwork on the Gellatly Road side of the pub you will see some graffiti scratched in the bricks all seemingly dating from June 1971 - among the initials we can see FW, TE, CW, WD and others. Wonder who these were and what was happening on those June days more than 50 years ago?
Sad to see the White Hart in New Cross Gate closed and empty. Leaseholders Patrick and Joseph Ryan, whose efforts had reinvigorated this iconic pub over the last few years, shut up shop for good on New Year's Eve. They have concluded that the pub will no longer be viable for them as a result of plans to convert the rooms above the pub into flats.
The building is owned by the Wellington Pub Company and their planning application to convert the upper storeys was turned down by Lewisham Council in August 2019 after more than 3,000 signed a petition. A major reason for the refusal was that with flats above it was unlikely that the pub's late night licence and music would be able to continue, a key element in making it a viable business.
The owner/developer appealed against the decision and in October 2020 the Planning Inspectorate overruled Lewisham Council and granted planning permission. The Inspectorate accepted that the changes would mean an end to amplified music at any time, and with only 'live acoustic music (excluding non-handheld percussion)' allowed, and then only before 11 pm. But they argued that it would be possible for a pub to continue.
The current building, which is Grade II listed, dates back to around 1870 but there was an earlier building on site with a pub operating there from the 1850s if not earlier. The pub must be one of the most photographed buildings in New Cross over its long history, occupying as it does a commanding location at junction of two ancient trackways - the road from Dover to London (now New Cross Road) and the road coming off this to head towards Peckham and ultimately Westminster (now Queens Road, but known as Peckham Lane until later in the 19th century). When the pub first opened it was next to the tollgate that gave New Cross Gate it's name.
The original pub next to tollgate in around 1865. Note the Allsopp brewery signage on pub, and the 'Bromley Races' sign on tollgate shelter.
1847: an application for a victualling house licence for the White Hart was refused following opposition from other local pubs including The Five Bells. A licence wasn't issued until 1857 but plainly the White Hart already existed in the 1840s if not as a licensed pub perhaps more as a coaching inn where people could stop off on their way into London.
The bigger picture here is that no matter what community value a pub like the White Hart may have, to giant pub companies who own the buildings they are just a line on a spreadsheet of property investments. The Wellington Pub Company owns more than 700 pubs and is owned in turn by the Reuben brothers, one of the country's wealthiest families (joint number 2 on the Sunday Times rich list). They were criticised earlier in the pandemic for their rent policies and must now be sitting on may empty properties, including locally both The White Hart and the former Rose of Lee/Dirty South on Lee High Road. We need to make sure that Covid-19 doesn't become an excuse for closing pubs permanently - we still need them, whether they are economically viable in future will depend on lots of factors, not least how much rent the landlords charge the people running them.
So here's a few street/public art animals to be found in South London pubs.
First up, never mind the famous cat model in Catford town centre, not far away on the south circular is 'The Pride of Catford' puss reaching down for a pint in the garden of the Blythe Hill Tavern (the mosaic mural is the work of Tamara Froud @mosaicallsorts, apparently inspired by the design for the Catford Beer Festival)
From the outside it's looks like a small traditional pub (which it is), but it also has a big space out of the back that is a great place to be on a sunny day/evening. The pub is a Campaign for Real Ale favourite on account of its beer selection (not to mention elderflower cider on tap) and on Thursday and Friday nights you can get a Van Dough pizza and eat it in the pub or garden.
Thursday nights in the Blythe Hill Tavern also features an Irish music session. The pub has managed to retain its soul as an old school Irish bar while also catering for a broad cross section of the Catford population, old and new.
The car repair shop Mech-Weld next door the pub also has some interesting statues...
Incidentally Catford Beer Festival 2018 is on from 8 - 10 June at Catford Bridge Tavern
Another great pub in terms of outdoor space is The Fox on the Hill (formerly Fox under Hill) on Denmark Hill SE5, currently a Wetherspoon pub. It has big gardens at the front and the back, with lots of mature trees that make it feel quite rural even though you're just up the road from Camberwell.
And yes the fox in question is extensively represented, including on a statue in front garden...
Tonight - and every second Wednesday - it's 45 RPM night at the Telegraph at the Earl of Derby, the pub at 87 Dennets Road SE14. The format is simple enough, bring along a few 7 inch singles - actual vinyl only - and take a turn. Decks will be set up in the back of the pub from around 8 pm. I even had a go myself last time.
my selection at 45 RPM night last time
The pub is under new local management, with a plentiful supply of food and beers (other drinks of course available!).
As reported at Brockley Central and elsewhere, pub chain Antic is closing The Ravensbourne Arms in Lewisham High Street (near to the hospital), possibly as soon as this Sunday. The pub, formerly the Coach and Horses, was opened in its present incarnation in 2011. Its closure would be a great loss to the local area, it's always had a good crowd when I've been in there.
Antic have previously announced that they are planning to re-open the Market Tavern pub, also on the High Street but nearer to the town centre (their website suggests that it may be renamed E&H Hadley), so they may have decided to focus their efforts on that. There is also speculation that they are selling The Ravensbourne and fears that it may be converted into housing. Land Registry records show that the building hasn't changed hands recently, though a sale may be imminent. - Antic has always been as much a player in the property market as a pub company. But the future use of the building is still very much up for grabs.
Antic secured planning permission for flats above the pub in 2015, but to convert the pub itself into housing would require planning permission for a change of use, and there are many reasons why this might not be granted. Unfortunately a change of use from a pub to a shop would not necessarily require planning permission (see this CAMRA briefing on the complexities of planning law in relation to pubs), though any structural alterations to create it probably would. The most likely threat is of a retailer buying it and perhaps opening a mini-supermarket. This is happening all over the place, but it might be noted that Lewisham has bucked the trend of the seemingly unstoppable spread of these. For better or worse, the Tesco Express just down the road on Lewisham High Street closed recently after five years of operation, presumably because it wasn't making enough money. Unless they were thinking of moving down the road...
With current planning powers, it might be difficult for Lewisham Council to insist that a pub continues without Antic but they do have some influence over the future of the site - so get lobbying!
Update 4 November 2016:
The pub has closed, with Antic confirming last week: 'It is with sadness that we announce our leaving of the Ravensbourne Arms on Sunday the 30th October in advance of opening at our new home, EH Hadley, in central Lewisham in 2017'.
Here's a bit more historical detail about the building from the Heritage Statement submitted as part of the 2015 planning application: 'The Ravernsbourne Arms Public House is located on a corner block affronting Lewisham High Street, falling within the St Mary’s Conservation Area boundary. The site setting forms ‘Character Area 3’ of St Mary’s Conservation area... The area is characterised by its key civic buildings, urban street layouts and Victorian terraces with the key buildings affronting Lewisham High Street... The prominently situated public house building is not known to hold listed status. The construction is believed to have originated as a Georgian coaching inn but this construction is believed to have been badly damage in a fire and is thought to have been reconstructed during the early half of the 20th century'.
The building was included on Lewisham Council's 'Local List' in 2012, with the report stating 'Whilst no additional statutory protection is provided to buildings on such a list, the list serves as a way of recognising the importance, in a local context of the buildings on the list, so that they can be properly considered when development proposals are submitted to the Council for determination'.
'The Ravensbourne Arms, was built as the Coach and Horses in 1934. It is a substantial pub which occupies the plot between Legge Street and Romborough Way on Lewisham High Street. The principle elevation is Lewisham High Street but this building also addresses the streets to either side by continuing the pub frontage round either corner. This detail increases the impact on the streetscape of this building.
Made from red brick with plain clay tiled hipped roof it is in a simple domestic style with Arts and Crafts detailing. The ground floor is finished with small brown glazed tiles in a simple pattern and the motif of a coach and horses is included on the Legge Street corner. The building retains all of the original external detail including a dentiled course to the eaves, iron rainwater goods, windows but the former shop front from the off license, common in pubs has gone. It is easy to identify where it
was located by the timber panelling and its loss does not effect the significance of the building and the handsome contribution it makes towards the character of the townscape. This building meets the Local List criteria for local architectural and local historic interest'.
The current Brockley Jack pub dates back to 1898 and replaced an older building demolished not long before. The pub had actually only been known by that name since 1863 - prior to that it was called The Castle. It is described in Walter Besant's London South of the Thames (published 1912, but written in the 1890s):
'on the west side of the road is the Brockley Jack public-house. It was named after Jack Cade and was formerly frequented by Dick Turpin and other highway- men, and is a good specimen of the English wayside tavern of the last century. The taproom and the whole architecture of the place with its old buildings are curious, and the sign nailed to the stump of an old elm in the yard is painted on a mammoth's bone which was dug up in the railway cutting behind the house. The Croydon Canal was acquired by the Croydon Railway in 1836, and it was in deepening this that the bones, of which the sign is one, were found. The old farm south of this inn will soon be built over, and houses are already appearing in the lane to Honor Oak, but most of the ground is still pasture' (Jack Cade was a leader of the 1450 Kentish uprising).
The demolition of the old building was opposed by some, as indicated by this report from th Illustrated London News, 16 October 1897:
'The Jack Inn, Brockley: The vandal is generally more inclined to spare a public-house than he is to spare a church; but it is the old Jack Inn at Brockley, in Kent, that is now marked down for demolition. Many a cyclist following the course of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway from London Bridge will miss the welcome which the inn continued to give from the old world; but the growth of suburban London is imperious in its demands. Brockley is within the Parliamentary borough of Deptford; but the little boundaries and isolations of London are rapidly disappearing in that direction, and much beside the Jack Inn will disappear ere long in front of London's immense army of occupation'
Judging by the number of paintings made of the old pub, it was something of an iconic building.
A painting dated 1898 and sigend G.C., held by Lewisham Local History and Archives Centre
The pub painted in 1897 by Philip Norman (from Museum of London)
I finally made it down last week to the Catford Constitutional Club, the pub in what was once the Conservative Club. The decor has a shabby period charm, rather like it was an abandoned outpost of a once powerful political party (OK they still run the country, but they have little presence in Lewisham). A good place to eat, drink and put the world to rights, and the pub also hosts various comedy, quiz , film and music nights.
Last Wednesday I was pleased to stumble across a room upstairs full of people playing the ukulele - Catford Charity Strummers seemingly surfing the South London uke wave that also includes Brockley Ukulele Group, Dulwich Ukulele Club, PLUC (People of Lewisham Ukulele Club) and Goldsmiths Ukulele Society.
The pub is run by Antic, who for a while ran the nearby Catford Bridge Tavern ( (formerly the Copperfield/Railway Tavern) that was seriously damaged in a fire earlier this year. I gather the wooden bar in the Constitutional may have made its way from the CBT.
Unfortunately the current pub tenancy only runs until October 2016, with the building itself (one of Catford's oldest) threatened by redevelopment plans for the area. With a question mark hanging over whether the Catford Bridge Tavern will ever reopen, the area can ill afford to lose another popular pub. There is a petition calling on Lewisham Council/Catford Regeneration Partnership to extend the tenancy. It says: 'The CCC building is part of planned re-development of the Catford Centre/Thomas Lane. The CCC strongly supports efforts to regenerate the heart of Catford however we feel this should not come at the expense of one of its most historic buildings or a pub that is fast becoming considered a community asset as was its predecessor the Catford Bridge Tavern'.
When the Montague Arms (289 Queens Road SE15) closed in late 2011, many people feared it was gone for good. Stan and Bet, who had been working there for many years, had passed away, and the famous contents of the pub had been put up for sale Today though the pub is going strong having been 'resteamed, rebooted, repunked' as it says outside - it remains a good music venue with a different but equally idiosyncratic style.
Meanwhile the memories of its previous incarnation live on, not least in a series of remarkable albums put out in the 1970s. Thanks to my friend David W. who has found copies of them in various SE London charity shops.
Live at the Montague(1971)
A sleevenote on the back of this first album by Peter Latham, BBC presenter, says 'New Cross may not be within the sound of Bow Bells, but you can certainly find more than a touch of Cockney in its pubs. The Montague Arms, featured on this record, is not only in New Cross, its also vibrantly alive... the 'Mont' has the secret of making you forget the drab day's grind, the dismal weather and the disastrous news'.
The sleevenotes also instoduce the two musicians who were in effect the house band at the pub. Peter Hoyle, the Mony's landlord and drummer, is described as looking 'like a wilder edition of Peter Ustinov and plays the drum like a demon'. Peter London on organ and piano and vocals is said to be 'blind and works with music in Braille', his musical career including recording with his wife Marilyn as 'Man and Wife' (including the single Who Shot the Piper Man?), and being Musical DIrector for the BBC TV series STRAMASH featuring Lulu
On this and the next three albums the two Petes are also joined by comedian/compere/singer Jimmy Jones.
Live at the Montague Arms - Volume Two (1972)
More great cover versions, with Peter London now adding a moog to his keyboards. Songs include The Beatles 'A Day in the Life' and Gilbert O'Sullivan's Alone Again Naturally.
The crowd photo on the back is great, very evocative of early 1970s pub life:
Live at the Montague Arms - Volume Three (1972)
I haven't got the sleeve of Volume Three, only the vinyl (anyone help me?). Another diverse offering - Eleanor Rigby rubs up against Elgar's Nimrod and Jimmy Jones' comedy routines. Note that the recording engineers are listed as John Hassell Recordings. The Barnes-based Hassell assisted many people to self-release records and is now justly celebrated for his role in pressing dub-plates for the UK reggae scene.
Live at the Montague Arms - Volume Four (1973)
The semi-psychedelic cover art stands out on this one.
Recording engineer this time is Bob Auger, who worked as sound engineer with The Kinks, The Animals and many more.
The two Petes pretty much invented the look for the guys from Abba didn't they?:
Once again the crowd picture is a 70s fashion classic:
This album also has a gatefold sleeve, with the inside promoting the King and Queen, Kimmeridge Road, SE9 - described as the 'The Biggest Live Strip Comedy Scene in London' (the Montague Arms also featured strippers at this time). I think this pub/disco in Mottingham was run by the same people.
Live at the New Montague Arms (1977)
Note the address is given on the back as Queens Road, Peckham on the back - the confusion about whether the pub is in Peckham or in New Cross continues to this day. I guess as it's on the border it can be said to be either.
The picture in the top left of the cover shows, I believe, Bromley's Christopher Greener (1973-2015) - at the time Britain's tallest man - standing next to the pub's Stan Pownall.
The duo continued to perform in the Montague Arms, as the Two Petes, into the 21st century. I saw them many times on Sunday lunchtimes - who can forget their version of Wonderwall!
Are there any more albums?!
Here again is their version of MacArthur Park/Popcorn, which I put together with some pictures of the pub (see also their version of America):
Peter London
Before his Montague Arms days Peter London released the single 'Bless You' on Pye records in 1965, produced by the legendary Joe Meek
Who shot the Piper man? by Man and Wife (Peter London and his wife) was released on CBS in 1970
Update (2 April 2015): Jimmy Jones's account
In his autobiography, 'Now this is a very true story' (2011), the comedian Jimmy Jones mentions working with Peter Hoyle (pub owner) and his brother-in-law Stan (the bar manager) to get the Montague Arms going as a venue, and describes how the records came about:
'We would have strippers on Monday and Wednesday nights, and Sunday nights we'd put on drag acts... Peter Hoyle noticed that there were more and more punters coming in just for my comedy routines. And he had a very bright idea. 'Wouldn't it be nice', he siad, 'if we had something to sell all these lorry drivers who are spreading the word about you'... No stand-up comedian had ever released a vinyl long-player of adult material before. So we recorded 'Live at the Montague Arms' relased on the Montague Arms label. It was very popular, we sold thousands of copies of them in the pub. Bill Wyman certainly bought a copy. We finished recording five stand-up LPs from the Montague Arms. '
Jones mentions that all of the Rolling Stones with the exception of Mick Jagger came down to see him at the Mont, as did other other comedians including Mike Reid, Roy 'Chubby' Brown and one Cameron Davidson from Blackheath - soon to launch a successful career not uninfluenced by Jones' 'adult' comedy routines as Jim Davidson (he also performed at the Montague Arms).
By Jones' account he fell out with Hoyle after he started getting success and offered gigs elsewhere. A dispute about royalties from the records led to a court case, with Jones claiming that 'No one was buying those records to listen to the drums and keyboards'. As is often the way it became 'a very nasty and expensive court case which - to be honest with you - neither of us won'.
Jones also says that when Hoyle 'opened a second pub, the King & Queen at Mottingham' he [Jones] opened it for him with my dear friend Dave Lee Travis, the DJ, and an act who became very close mates of mine, a dwarf cabaret act known as the Mini Tones - Kenny Baker and Jack Purvis who went on to be in Star Wars as R2D2 and a Jawa'.
Update (8 April 2015)
Just came across this article from The Independent (29 June 2008): The Entertainers: 'The Two Petes' are the house band at The Montague Arms. Peter Hoyle says: ''I've been the proprietor for 40 years. My brother-in-law and sister run it now. It's changed a lot over the years. In 1978 we refurbished and now there are moose heads on the walls, a zebra head, skeletons, a penny farthing". Peter London is quoted: 'We go for stuff people know: the Stones, Beatles, some Ray Charles. We've also dabbled with Oasis, a bit of Ronan Keating. You’ve got to give people what they want. One song that has always gone down well is "Whiter Shade of Pale"... You can't buy atmosphere. In modern pubs, you don't feel welcome. Customers here know they're going to get called "love" when they come in. It's just like home.'
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